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  1. #11
    mcgruff
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    Street performers dates back to antiquity, and occurs all over the world...Street performers have been around for a long time in OC also. They should be charged a fee..a moderate fee...as far as taxes and what they are claiming..I could care less. Then lets just shut the whole boardwalk down..since I'm sure most of the business are under reporting...geesh the tax police is alive and kicking on this board..at least Bobby is not out collecting an unemployment check and placing his burden on the rest of us...I support anyone who wants to earn a buck...as long as it's legal then it's none of my business.

  2. #12
    mcgruff
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    The American inventor and statesman Benjamin Franklin was a street performer. He composed songs, poetry and prose about the current events and went out in public and performed them. He would then sell printed copies of them to the public.

    Hey Bobby if it was good enough for Ben Franklin....then your in good company..hymm let get some of our ciber sleuths out there to check his tax returns..circa late 1700's.

  3. #13
    Senior Member terp84alum's Avatar
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    Don't forget that you are now required to collect MD sales tax and then file with the state. In the end, the performers will lose. You guys should have stayed quiet.

  4. #14
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    A traditional street performer (Busker) works for gratuity, period. When a "street performer" has a set price for a service or product is where I think it blurs the line and is more in step with a business providing a service or product for a set price. I personally dont think its fair for all the other business in town and on the boardwalk that have a set price for their service or product. I don't see the difference now, other then "performers" having the ability to bypass the rules and regulations the other brick and mortar business have to endure. And to use "free speech" as a reason why it should be OK to allow these performaers, who now have set pricing, is not what free speech is about and doesn't fit the definition of a busker.




    Do it for gratuity or donations only then ok, you're a busker and I can see the free speech arguments. Do it for a set fee then it's a business that should abide by the same rules as everyone else, that's where my hang up lies.

  5. #15
    BobbyBalloonz BobbyBalloonz's Avatar
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    I'm all for there being more requirements, but you know that the argument does remain that a great percentage of the stores on the boardwalk are not abiding by these rules anyway. I don't really care to argue, I know a bunch of the owners, and I know that they dodge taxes for a fact. I know they pay employees under the table for a fact. You talk of "doing a little trick" but wouldn't buying a t-shirt and a decal from a distributor for about 2 dollars wholesale and then reselling it for around 30 dollars, as something that is a giant piece of garbage that's going to fall apart after 2 or 3 washes be considered "a little trick?" come on...let's be serious. and if you notice the businesses that do things by the book that have survived are so few and far between. look at kite loft, they are legitimate, they pay everyone and pay taxes, licensce, insurance, etc... man look at the prices they have to charge to do that. I can't even afford to buy a kite there. LOL. it's really a shame the way it REALLY is on the boardwalk, I'm being jumped all over, like people are mad at me for making a dollar, I just don't get it. I mean come on, I make balloon animals for children!!! only 2 stores on the boards even offer balloons (hooters and golden plate) and they are "free" to the kids...but if you don't eat there, go see if they are free.....just like not one single balloon that I paid money for was "free" I give away balloons to children all the time, every single day. There are certain days in the summer that I give away balloons the ENTIRE day for free, just because I want to do it. These business are going to make more money in one weekend then I will see for the entire summer...so why not worry about THEM PAYING THE TAXES? Half the shop owners are TAX EXEMPT because they are here on visas, I mean it doesn't matter that they have been raping our system for 15 years right? let's pick on Bobby the Balloon Man instead.....I think it would be a WHOLE TON more money than I am going to contribute....why does it bother people so much? I guess it's because I am considered a bum...like I am ducking the system..I guess the shop owner that is buying a bunch of trash and taking peoples money and is not required to pay taxes, and doesn't pay workmans comp because when you look it up, they only employees he has listed are his family members in the store, yet...he has 4 times that many employees when you walk in the store..oh wait they are "independent contractors responsible for claiming thier own taxes"... maybe we should be more concerned about him wouldn't you say? and for those of you who think I am just a conspiracy theorist I could care less what you think I am 110% sure of what I am saying. I know owners from almost all the souvenier shops. My wife has worked for a bunch of those shops, there are people that still owe her money, but she can't prove it, it's not set up that way. I have personally seen BOXES of cash that can't go into a bank because it can't be claimed. I have seen this for myself and I know it to be true. I'm all for making the requirements more strict.. Both you and I know it's next to impossible to open a shop on the boards, look at all of them that fail. So what you want me to fail too? does it make you MAD that I might succeed at something and support my family and not get in the welfare line? do you perhaps think that I should have gone to school, gotten a degree, and gone to work for a company to make someone rich, that will eventually lay me off, and not be able to afford my health insurance, and make up some reason to fire me before I am eligible for my pension? If you think I'm a bum, then I guess I am. I hope in 5 years I will be in a better place than I am today, but one thing is for certain that no one can EVER say that I didn't try, and that I didn't stand up for something I believe in. I'm sorry if I offend you. I'm sorry if me doing something that not one single store does on the boardwalk somehow makes you mad as if I am taking market share from them. What's the difference, the people are going to buy a bunch of garbage and get ripped off no matter where they go. I am only talking about souveniers though, not food or drink, that's different. The tip / price thing is still up in the air anyway. But I will say that people are mean, and that they don't think my time, talent or material is worth anything in general. and if the majority of people feel that way ( I can tell because of the amount of money I collect per balloon on average) then I have no choice but to think it's indeed true. I am whatever you say I am. if you think that the balloons should be free, then you can go practice for a couple of decades, then spend an obscene amount of money daily on balloon materials, and give them all away for free if you want. I personally can't afford to do that and I hope that the way I have been doing it continues to work out for me. I hope that the council can come to something good taht will make all parties involved happy. I hope that everyone can have a great summer and actually acomplish the goals that they set out to acheive. I also hope that people can worry about something of consequence, instead of beating up the street performers who are at least trying. /sigh

  6. #16
    BobbyBalloonz BobbyBalloonz's Avatar
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by terp84alum

    Don't forget that you are now required to collect MD sales tax and then file with the state. In the end, the performers will lose. You guys should have stayed quiet.
    I didn't bring this issue up. Mark Chase is the sole reason this was brought up, I would have left it alone, however now having tried it, it is something I am considering. How do we lose by collecting the sales tax? Can you explain it to me because I don't understand (I am not trying to sound sarcastic, I really want to learn).

  7. #17
    mcgruff
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    No need to defend yourself...some people on this board have a negative opinion of your trade long before they knew who you were...They post messages to you in a patronizingly superior manner...I agree with you after reading some of these posts...the one's that question you and your taxes I find laughable...

  8. #18
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz

    I'm all for there being more requirements, but you know that the argument does remain that a great percentage of the stores on the boardwalk are not abiding by these rules anyway. I don't really care to argue, I know a bunch of the owners, and I know that they dodge taxes for a fact. I know they pay employees under the table for a fact.


    non-sequiter



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    You talk of "doing a little trick" but wouldn't buying a t-shirt and a decal from a distributor for about 2 dollars wholesale and then reselling it for around 30 dollars, as something that is a giant piece of garbage that's going to fall apart after 2 or 3 washes be considered "a little trick?" come on...let's be serious. and if you notice the businesses that do things by the book that have survived are so few and far between.


    Difference is that they are selling a product, for a set fee. They are not doing it for a gratuity.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    look at kite loft, they are legitimate, they pay everyone and pay taxes, licensce, insurance, etc... man look at the prices they have to charge to do that. I can't even afford to buy a kite there. LOL. it's really a shame the way it REALLY is on the boardwalk, I'm being jumped all over, like people are mad at me for making a dollar, I just don't get it. I mean come on, I make balloon animals for children!!!


    No, you are not making balloon aninmals for "children" and you are selling them a product for a profit (now for a set fee) and the customer base happens to be children.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    only 2 stores on the boards even offer balloons (hooters and golden plate) and they are "free" to the kids...but if you don't eat there, go see if they are free.....just like not one single balloon that I paid money for was "free" I give away balloons to children all the time, every single day. There are certain days in the summer that I give away balloons the ENTIRE day for free, just because I want to do it.


    You do it for a fee? For a donation? Or for a set fee?



    This is what seperates "performers" from the brick and mortar businesses and instead of trying to differentiate yourself you are putting yourself in the same classification as them.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    These business are going to make more money in one weekend then I will see for the entire summer...so why not worry about THEM PAYING THE TAXES? Half the shop owners are TAX EXEMPT because they are here on visas, I mean it doesn't matter that they have been raping our system for 15 years right? let's pick on Bobby the Balloon Man instead.....I think it would be a WHOLE TON more money than I am going to contribute....why does it bother people so much?


    Non-sequiter


    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    I guess it's because I am considered a bum...like I am ducking the system..I guess the shop owner that is buying a bunch of trash and taking peoples money and is not required to pay taxes, and doesn't pay workmans comp because when you look it up, they only employees he has listed are his family members in the store, yet...he has 4 times that many employees when you walk in the store..oh wait they are "independent contractors responsible for claiming thier own taxes"... maybe we should be more concerned about him wouldn't you say? and for those of you who think I am just a conspiracy theorist I could care less what you think I am 110% sure of what I am saying. I know owners from almost all the souvenier shops. My wife has worked for a bunch of those shops, there are people that still owe her money, but she can't prove it, it's not set up that way. I have personally seen BOXES of cash that can't go into a bank because it can't be claimed. I have seen this for myself and I know it to be true. I'm all for making the requirements more strict.. Both you and I know it's next to impossible to open a shop on the boards, look at all of them that fail. So what you want me to fail too?

    This is a different argument, one that has nothing to do with street performers.



    Again, you are now putting yourself in the same classification as a for profit business and stepped away from the "street performer" definition.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    does it make you MAD that I might succeed at something and support my family and not get in the welfare line? do you perhaps think that I should have gone to school, gotten a degree, and gone to work for a company to make someone rich, that will eventually lay me off, and not be able to afford my health insurance, and make up some reason to fire me before I am eligible for my pension? If you think I'm a bum, then I guess I am.


    No it doesn't. And now you are tugging on heart strings while avoiding the points I was trying to make.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    I hope in 5 years I will be in a better place than I am today, but one thing is for certain that no one can EVER say that I didn't try, and that I didn't stand up for something I believe in. I'm sorry if I offend you. I'm sorry if me doing something that not one single store does on the boardwalk somehow makes you mad as if I am taking market share from them.


    You are being intellectually dishonest if you don't see the difference or fail to recognize the point. How is it fair to those shop owners that pay big money to promote their products or services and how is what you are doing any different?



    Open up a shop, pay the rents, and all of the other fees a shop owner has to.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    What's the difference, the people are going to buy a bunch of garbage and get ripped off no matter where they go. I am only talking about souveniers though, not food or drink, that's different. The tip / price thing is still up in the air anyway. But I will say that people are mean, and that they don't think my time, talent or material is worth anything in general.


    That is what being a "street" performer is about.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    and if the majority of people feel that way ( I can tell because of the amount of money I collect per balloon on average) then I have no choice but to think it's indeed true. I am whatever you say I am. if you think that the balloons should be free, then you can go practice for a couple of decades, then spend an obscene amount of money daily on balloon materials, and give them all away for free if you want.


    Again, you are missing the point. If you have a legit business then go through the same procedure any other boardwalk business has to endure.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    I personally can't afford to do that and I hope that the way I have been doing it continues to work out for me. I hope that the council can come to something good taht will make all parties involved happy. I hope that everyone can have a great summer and actually acomplish the goals that they set out to acheive. I also hope that people can worry about something of consequence, instead of beating up the street performers who are at least trying. /sigh


    Bobby,



    I think you are totally missing the point.



    Please ask yourself how charging a set price or fee for a product or service is any different then the businesses on the boards are doing. Then explain why street performers should be exempt from the hassles those brick and morter businesses have to endure.


    It's not a matter of feeling pity for you, because I do. But if I wanted to start a roach coach and park it wherever I want in town I could claim I am just trying......... trying not to collect a welfare payment, trying not to be a burden on others, trying to just make it on my own. These "feel good" reasons do not give me the right to by-pass
    the rules and regulations that are in place and everyone else has to endure.


    It's a matter of fairness. If you are street "performing" for a gratituity then thats one thing. If you are are a business doing your work for a set price then how is that fair to the other businesses on the boardwalk?



    I know my post and comments will be construeded as a mean ol' prick but these are legit questions that need to be addressed and answered. Because you are "just trying to make it" ok then I could use that same argument for my coach roach idea.



    You must play by the rules, thats why they are there. Perform for gratuities? OK no problem. Perform for a profit and a set fee? Ok you are a business and should abide by the same rules and regulations as everyone else.



    Thats all I am saying. If you think my stance is unfair, or unfairly targets street "performers" please tell me how and educate me.

  9. #19
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz

    I'm all for there being more requirements, but you know that the argument does remain that a great percentage of the stores on the boardwalk are not abiding by these rules anyway. I don't really care to argue, I know a bunch of the owners, and I know that they dodge taxes for a fact. I know they pay employees under the table for a fact.


    non-sequiter



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    You talk of "doing a little trick" but wouldn't buying a t-shirt and a decal from a distributor for about 2 dollars wholesale and then reselling it for around 30 dollars, as something that is a giant piece of garbage that's going to fall apart after 2 or 3 washes be considered "a little trick?" come on...let's be serious. and if you notice the businesses that do things by the book that have survived are so few and far between.


    Difference is that they are selling a product, for a set fee. They are not doing it for a gratuity.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    look at kite loft, they are legitimate, they pay everyone and pay taxes, licensce, insurance, etc... man look at the prices they have to charge to do that. I can't even afford to buy a kite there. LOL. it's really a shame the way it REALLY is on the boardwalk, I'm being jumped all over, like people are mad at me for making a dollar, I just don't get it. I mean come on, I make balloon animals for children!!!


    No, you are not making balloon aninmals for "children" and you are selling them a product for a profit (now for a set fee) and the customer base happens to be children.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    only 2 stores on the boards even offer balloons (hooters and golden plate) and they are "free" to the kids...but if you don't eat there, go see if they are free.....just like not one single balloon that I paid money for was "free" I give away balloons to children all the time, every single day. There are certain days in the summer that I give away balloons the ENTIRE day for free, just because I want to do it.


    You do it for a fee? For a donation? Or for a set fee?



    This is what seperates "performers" from the brick and mortar businesses and instead of trying to differentiate yourself you are putting yourself in the same classification as them.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    These business are going to make more money in one weekend then I will see for the entire summer...so why not worry about THEM PAYING THE TAXES? Half the shop owners are TAX EXEMPT because they are here on visas, I mean it doesn't matter that they have been raping our system for 15 years right? let's pick on Bobby the Balloon Man instead.....I think it would be a WHOLE TON more money than I am going to contribute....why does it bother people so much?


    Non-sequiter


    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    I guess it's because I am considered a bum...like I am ducking the system..I guess the shop owner that is buying a bunch of trash and taking peoples money and is not required to pay taxes, and doesn't pay workmans comp because when you look it up, they only employees he has listed are his family members in the store, yet...he has 4 times that many employees when you walk in the store..oh wait they are "independent contractors responsible for claiming thier own taxes"... maybe we should be more concerned about him wouldn't you say? and for those of you who think I am just a conspiracy theorist I could care less what you think I am 110% sure of what I am saying. I know owners from almost all the souvenier shops. My wife has worked for a bunch of those shops, there are people that still owe her money, but she can't prove it, it's not set up that way. I have personally seen BOXES of cash that can't go into a bank because it can't be claimed. I have seen this for myself and I know it to be true. I'm all for making the requirements more strict.. Both you and I know it's next to impossible to open a shop on the boards, look at all of them that fail. So what you want me to fail too?

    This is a different argument, one that has nothing to do with street performers.



    Again, you are now putting yourself in the same classification as a for profit business and stepped away from the "street performer" definition.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    does it make you MAD that I might succeed at something and support my family and not get in the welfare line? do you perhaps think that I should have gone to school, gotten a degree, and gone to work for a company to make someone rich, that will eventually lay me off, and not be able to afford my health insurance, and make up some reason to fire me before I am eligible for my pension? If you think I'm a bum, then I guess I am.


    No it doesn't. And now you are tugging on heart strings while avoiding the points I was trying to make.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    I hope in 5 years I will be in a better place than I am today, but one thing is for certain that no one can EVER say that I didn't try, and that I didn't stand up for something I believe in. I'm sorry if I offend you. I'm sorry if me doing something that not one single store does on the boardwalk somehow makes you mad as if I am taking market share from them.


    You are being intellectually dishonest if you don't see the difference or fail to recognize the point. How is it fair to those shop owners that pay big money to promote their products or services and how is what you are doing any different?



    Open up a shop, pay the rents, and all of the other fees a shop owner has to.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    What's the difference, the people are going to buy a bunch of garbage and get ripped off no matter where they go. I am only talking about souveniers though, not food or drink, that's different. The tip / price thing is still up in the air anyway. But I will say that people are mean, and that they don't think my time, talent or material is worth anything in general.


    That is what being a "street" performer is about.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    and if the majority of people feel that way ( I can tell because of the amount of money I collect per balloon on average) then I have no choice but to think it's indeed true. I am whatever you say I am. if you think that the balloons should be free, then you can go practice for a couple of decades, then spend an obscene amount of money daily on balloon materials, and give them all away for free if you want.


    Again, you are missing the point. If you have a legit business then go through the same procedure any other boardwalk business has to endure.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyBalloonz
    I personally can't afford to do that and I hope that the way I have been doing it continues to work out for me. I hope that the council can come to something good taht will make all parties involved happy. I hope that everyone can have a great summer and actually acomplish the goals that they set out to acheive. I also hope that people can worry about something of consequence, instead of beating up the street performers who are at least trying. /sigh


    Bobby,



    I think you are totally missing the point.



    Please ask yourself how charging a set price or fee for a product or service is any different then the businesses on the boards are doing. Then explain why street performers should be exempt from the hassles those brick and morter businesses have to endure.


    It's not a matter of feeling pity for you, because I do. But if I wanted to start a roach coach and park it wherever I want in town I could claim I am just trying......... trying not to collect a welfare payment, trying not to be a burden on others, trying to just make it on my own. These "feel good" reasons do not give me the right to by-pass
    the rules and regulations that are in place and everyone else has to endure.


    It's a matter of fairness. If you are street "performing" for a gratituity then thats one thing. If you are are a business doing your work for a set price then how is that fair to the other businesses on the boardwalk?



    I know my post and comments will be construeded as a mean ol' prick but these are legit questions that need to be addressed and answered. Because you are "just trying to make it" ok then I could use that same argument for my coach roach idea.



    You must play by the rules, thats why they are there. Perform for gratuities? OK no problem. Perform for a profit and a set fee? Ok you are a business and should abide by the same rules and regulations as everyone else.



    Thats all I am saying. If you think my stance is unfair, or unfairly targets street "performers" please tell me how and educate me.

  10. #20
    BobbyBalloonz BobbyBalloonz's Avatar
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    Re: Street Performers vs. City Hall

    Thanks mcgruff.. I am sitting here thinking about it, and I actually will do a fraction of a percent of the market share. the stores can do the amount of money I will make for the whole day in probably 10 or 15 minutes (that's being generous, it could be more like 1 minute) and people are really concerned about wether the street performers are paying their taxes. 9 out of 10 are not even from this country, and send the money over seas. it doesn't matter anyway because since they are here on visas, they are exempt from paying taxes.. how about them apples!!! but as for me. I do report, thanks for being concerned about it. I work hard to make sure that those on welfare can get paid.

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